Kubi Springer: So, good morning, Wayne. How are you?
Wayne Hill: Good morning. I'm fine, thanks.
KS: Good. Well, thank you for coming in today.
WH: No problem.
KS: I'm excited about what we're going to do. Because a lot of people are curious about how to get a job. And, so let's start with Basics 101. When you're looking at CVs, what are you looking for as a recruiter?
WH: OK. Depending on what job I'm marketing, I want to see what sort of skills that person has in relation to the job they're applying for. I want to see-- one of the biggest things on a CV is spelling mistakes, to be honest. I'll be honest with you. You can look CVs all day long and think, yeah they're great. But if there's any grammatical errors, then, it's a no no. Automatically. I always advise people to double check-- get their CVs double checked.
KS: By somebody else.
WH: Yeah. Get it done by somebody else.
KS: 'Cause sometimes you could look at a document so long that you miss the details. So get somebody else to check it.
WH: Yeah, you spend so much time sort of honing in your right skills on that CV. And you just miss a beat. So I think that's a key importance.
KS: Do you find that with senior as well as junior people?
WH: Yeah, both.
KS: Why do people always want you to put your interests on the bottom of your CV? What's that about?
WH: Right. That's a good question. I think, depending on the industry you're going into, there are clients that always like to look at your skills and experience. But they also want to see what do you do outside of that?
KS: Who's the person?
WH: Yeah. They want to see what the person is, what the person's about, what you're into? You could be into some of things that some of the team members are into. I think that's key-- to always put your interests.
KS: Now I want to look at-- when you get in front of people, and you're in the interview. What are the do's and don'ts.
WH: Let's start with how you dress. I think that's a key thing. Because that's-- obviously, appearance is everything. For the guys, if you're going into the digital and creative industry, you don't need to wear a tie. A lot of people tend to wear ties when they go to it. I think smart casual, a suit, open shirt. Especially within the digital and creative industry, everything's about culture. You could have the right skills, but you've got to fit into that mix. Because if you're not fitting in, you probably won't like them. Or they probably won't like you. So it's key.
KS: It's key.
WH: In the interview itself, sit upright. Talk directly to the person that's interviewing you. Be clear. Be clear. Don't waffle. Do you tend to-- you know, it's like being on a radio station. You have to be quick. You have to come up with the answers and then move forward. I think, if you tend to sort of go off on a tangent, you could bore your interviewer. So you want to be clear about that.
Make good eye contact. I think those are the sort of general points for the first stages of the interview. And then it's just down to your skills and your ability and what you have on your CV. Also, do your history on the client that you're going to see.
KS: OK, so you mentioned something about interview preparation research-- knowing the company. I could put my hands up say, there has been two times in my career that I can pinpoint where I haven't done my research. And being in that room, you feel like you want to die. Because you know when you're there, I didn't really prepare for this properly.
KS: Talk to us about that.
WH: It's always key. I mean, even when we interview people to work with us, one of the key things we ask is, have you seen our website? You know, what do you think? What did you take from that? I think it's imperative to actually have an understanding with the industry you're going into, knowing what they're about. Knowing a bit about the history. Now, no one's saying you have to write down War and Peace--
--about this particular industry that you're going into. But, it's essential that you actually have an understanding-- who owns the company, maybe.
KS: What clients do they have?
WH: What clients do they have. And if you can't find that out, getting a detailed understanding of the type of business that they are.
KS: Which, to be honest, people's websites now-- they give away so much. People tend to have blogs. They have portfolios, case studies, the About page. You can get some information.
WH: Yeah, even they could be in the news. When I say the news, I mean the creative news, or the creative pages. They could be talked about in these particular areas.
KS: The trade publications.
WH: The trade publications, yeah. So it could be key bits of information that you pick up that could impress your client, you know. You get a raised eyebrow because, ah, they've done their research.
KS: Is it something that you as a recruiter would snob at, if there's not a profile?
WH: Not at all.
WH: I think-- one of the key things is that we bring people in to interview. So we build their profile. We can do that for them.
KS: But not a lot of recruiters are doing that anymore. There seems to be a trend where recruiters are not-- I remember in the early days when I was working, you always got called in. And I've found in the last couple of years when people have been hitting me up, they don't want to see you. They're like, oh look on LinkedIn.
WH: Nowadays, sometimes it can be hard. I mean, if you've got someone that's already working, it's hard to actually get them in the office. But then you can go out and meet them. There's things like Skype now. You can Skype them. Or you can do an extensive telephone interview. It's always good to see the person you're actually putting forward to a job. But we try our best to see everybody that we put forward. It's imperative really.
WH: The agents that we have are excellent. I mean, some of them have come from industry-- the industry that we actually recruit in, some of them have come from that area. They've been either graphic designers or account managers themselves and decided to get into the recruitment industry. So they get it. They understand what's required. So they jump on it. And they're out there meeting people or bringing them into the office.
KS: OK. Brilliant. I know that when I teach branding, I'm always banging on to people about being concise with their communication. So if I'm sitting in front of somebody who wants to engage me for brand workshops, I'm not going to go on and on and on and on about what I did for the mobile awards. I'm going to go on and on about what my history is with brand workshop delivery. How important is it-- when people have got a lot of experience-- for them to be concise on their CV?
WH: If you've been asked a question about what you've done or the things on your CV, talk about those particular things. One of the key things on a CV is, a lot of people tend to talk about "we did" or "I was involved in." Your CV is there for you to shine. So therefore, talk about what you did.
KS: Good advice.
WH: Talk about what you actually did. It's all very well-- you can elaborate on the other things later on. I was involved in this particular project with such and such. And we did this. But what did you actually do? I think that's key. I think clients want to see and hear the passion that you have.
KS: Myself, when I get paid literally double, sometimes four times, the amount when I go internationally as a brand specialist, than I do in the UK. Do you feel within yourself-- not necessarily the same advice that you give candidates, but [INAUDIBLE] yourself, it's important over the span of one's career to travel and look at other markets? What's your feelings?
WH: I would say that's a bit like leaving school and wanting to go away and travel to learn new things. In the industry of work, I think it's always good if you've got that opportunity, and you've got that availability to go international, even if it's just for a year. Just to get that breadth of experience. It's not important. It won't damage your CV as such, if you've gone into the right sort of industry, I guess. But it's always a good thing to do. You can still make a very good living abroad. Over here we're in a saturated market. So it's different. But internationally, you can make a lot of money. But it depends on what lifestyle you want.
KS: Absolutely, I mean, I encourage people-- as you know, Wayne-- I'd say about half my 16 years' experience has been international. And I encourage people-- if nothing else, it's just good for you. Confidence building-- for you to develop as a person. Not everybody has that opportunity to be able to do it. But where it comes, jump on it.
WH: Yeah. Take advantage of it. I think if it's there, then do it. A lot of people say to me, you know, what's Singapore like? I'd love to work in Singapore. And I say, it's great. But get the right job. Because it's expensive. Living is expensive.
WH: If they say Dubai or Qatar, things like that-- Middle East-- I'd say, go for it. Again, just make sure you get the right sort of salary. And I'm not trying to reflect that this is all on money, but you need to live.
KS: You've gotta live.
WH: You've gotta live.